The Not So Secret Lives of Real Mormon Wives

0:09 Esther Welcome back to the Broker's Table, where we talk faith, family, business, and everything that shapes the lives we are building. Today I'm sitting down with someone very special to me who helped me bring one of the biggest projects of my life into the world, our book, The Not So Secret Lives of Real Mormon Wives, and the documentary inspired by it, Women in Christ. She is an acquisitions manager at State of Fort, a best-selling author, a developmental editor, and a producer, the woman who took our stories from an idea all the way to print, and then to the big screen. Please welcome the one and only Emily Clark, and who will forever be my M. Giselle. Esther. Emily, welcome to my podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. I'd like to start off with when this all began, when we all encountered the secret lives of Mormon wives, and it just exploded with the internet and everyone viewing it and seeing it as this secret cult that was coming out to do some weird stuff. They made it seem really cool, right? It was really cool for people to watch. But you saw it differently. You saw it differently, and I would love to chat with you about that today. What inspired you? What, when you saw it, what did you feel, and how did all this come about as a result of it? Originally, I was amused. I think members of the church are used to false representations in media and movies and so on and so forth. We, most of the time, I think members have really good attitudes and sense of humor. For the most part, we kind of like to laugh at ourselves. I remember seeing a post from a friend on Facebook where she was talking about the show, and she said, I think it was just in case anyone was wondering, members of the church don't swing. I feel like this is really important. The comment section in that post was so funny. All these people jumping and going, I love swinging. Swinging is so fun, especially when you can really get air. Another lady was like, I don't even know what that means. Just these comments, so many of them just making fun and teasing, and it really showcased members of the church think about this kind of thing. But it was later when I saw the commercial for the TV show that I was like, oh, that is definitely what I do. Right. I remember a few things stood out to me. The blue coats, which sort of had this handmade in TV show feel, and they were talking about how men were controlling and the church didn't like women to have careers. I'm sitting there in my office at Cedar Fort as the acquisitions manager going, I did not get that memo. It's like someone missed church that Sunday. Right. So what is happening? Exactly. Exactly. So for me, I haven't watched the show. I know some of the ladies in the book have and have told me a little bit about it. And mostly I just think it sounds sad. It sounds like a show about influencers, not about members of the church to me personally. And it is sad. In this case, because there have been so many representations lately, for example, the story about the Mormon missionaries and the Hugh Grant who was playing a serial killer or something who kidnapped them. I just, there's so many things that have been coming out, especially in the last few years that have just misrepresented the church and the people in it.

4:27 Esther But women especially, it feels like the women are getting the short end of the stick. Like the TV show's sister wives. I'm like wrong church, wrong church. That's FLDS. That's not what we do. So not great representations. Just kind of a Nikki feeling thinking that people are out there watching that going, this is what members are like. Right. In some sense, it feels like the world is focused on the outliers. And that's very sensational. You know, to think about those outliers that which every group has. Yeah. And it's just easier and in some way more entertaining, I think, to focus on that and then assume that everyone's like that. And that's the thing that I think you and I definitely saw. And you mentioned that in your perspective, in your dealings, that a lot of people are within the church have a sense of humor. Yeah. I even realized that. Like I know we're all funny and we do love to laugh and jerk around like you and I. We can just spend like an hour's just laughing at the silliest things. But when you pointed that out and then you started telling me about movies and comments and things like that or the members reaction to things that I probably heard about but didn't see that side. And it helped me also see that the funny side of the way that members see things because I think maybe because we don't talk about the outliers, it just seems like we're not interested in that. But it's just why when the world is really dealing with that and doing it, you know, doing their job in sharing the outliers with us. But it's for us is easier to focus on the goodness that's happening. And that's why when we see shows like the secret lives of Mormon wives is just like, oh, like, you know, the first instinct is to go, oh, like that's, I don't do that. That's not what we do. I don't even know anyone that does that. But I'm not saying that there are people that have their own fetishes and things that they do in all walks of life. But I know that that is definitely not what I do or the people that are surrounded by me, the people that I see in church. I don't know anybody who does anything. I still haven't found anyone. I know. I'm like, I've never met anyone who's done anything that those women have done on that show. One of the things that I know that we did in just, you know, in one, in one sense, trying to share our perspective with the world was to make sure that we were not brandishing those women as bad or as, you know, they're not, they're not Mormon enough or they're not members enough. It was more like that. Perhaps that is their perspective and their truth. But we also want the world to also know other people's truth that is more representative of who we are and the church culture and the church. So I absolutely enjoyed that you had that opportunity to have that reflection and given your job again as an acquisition manager at Seta Fort, you were able to think of ways to make that happen. So the next question that I have for you was when you, well, when you saw this, you jumped in with structure, vision and urgency. How did you balance telling honest stories without exposing things that should stay sacred? Okay. So that was tricky because I did want everybody to talk about the church.

8:15 Esther I wanted them to talk about their lives and how the church influences their lives. So that was really important. But really, I think we just went with what I needed you to talk about in your stories is about your life as a woman with a career, being married, what your relationship is like with your husband and what your relationship is in the church and specifically with Jesus Christ. So those were our main things that are main topics that we asked everybody to sort of shoot for. And then the other thing that we tried to shoot for was to get everybody to sort of think of a theme for their section so that they could focus. Okay. This is what I'm going to talk about. So Kerry did being his hands. Esther did the broker. So we just had this way of structuring it so that people knew, okay, I'm creating a story arc of my life, of my story and I'm going to keep it within this framework. And that really helped a lot. But one thing that I wasn't expecting was that it ended up kind of turning into a therapy session for everybody. And I've edited hundreds of books and written multiple books of my own. And I've never had an experience like this where I'm asking the women to get vulnerable to really share their stories and they're coming back and they're like, oh my gosh, I just spent all last night crying because I haven't thought or dealt with this story that I'm sharing so publicly in a really long time. And so then that was me coming in trying to say, it's okay, you're doing the right thing and feeling a little bit guilty as well. Like I'm sorry, I'm dragging this out. Yeah, I'm dragging this out. But I think in a lot of ways, a lot of the women felt like it was a cathartic experience as well. Okay, like I got that off my chest now. I didn't realize it was something that I've been holding in all this time or that it's still even 10, 15, 20 years on could make me cry like that. Maybe I hadn't really dealt with it in the way that I thought I was supposed to. Never on the opposite end, retelling things that they had set aside that were really quite hilarious, like Gainellin's story about going shopping for lingerie before her wedding. And now I've had people ask me, how come you didn't have her take that out? I was like, I encouraged her to keep it in. Like I wanted that story because it was funny and it's our lives, it's real. But as far as keeping, I mean, if Hulu was talking about swinging. I know. I think we can talk about lingerie. And an embarrassing conversation that she had with her go read it. But yeah, so as far as keeping sacred things sacred, I feel like all of the women did a really good job of walking that line. So I didn't have to really place it at all. There was a couple of places throughout everybody's stories. Well not even everybody's, but through a few of the stories that I had to kind of, okay, we're going to rein that in a little bit. Sacred, not secret, kind of a thing. But they were just tiny things, not anything that I felt was huge. And then there were other times where the women were too closed off about those things where I was like, okay, we need to talk about this a little bit more. And there was one instance, and I won't say whose story it was, but she'll know that we ended up taking something out that was sacred, but it was also something that was appropriate to be in the book. And when the author came to me and said, why did you take that out? I mean, we talked about it in another story in another woman's book and I completely forgotten about that. We were kind of in this rushed moment trying to get the book ready for the print.

12:31 Esther And there's just a last minute decision on my part and I regretted it ever since. I'm like, ah, we should have left that in. She was right. But when you're in these moments where you're having to make quick decisions, sometimes you make mistakes, but we did try to do the best that we could. But yes, for us keeping sacred things sacred, it wasn't as much of a struggle as you might have thought it would be. Everybody understands that these women are all strong in the church and they know what's appropriate and what's not. And so there wasn't, I didn't feel like I had to go in and censor anybody really. So this was truly all their story and being able to put it all together the way that they did. And one of the things that I found fascinating and to who we are now and why we're sitting here together in this podcast is the Brokeless Table was sort of born out of my acceptance of being of the calling to be a part of this book. So that's another fascinating thing that I, that's going to be part of my story now, that it's because I did that. Now I'm doing this because it's the work that I accepted and I'm doing something that's so out of my realm of work, but yet it's something that must be done because if someone else is sharing what's supposed to be my story, I need to make sure that my voice is also heard in that. And I, and I believe that that is what we all collectively decided that our voices need to be heard and more voices within the church need to be heard, need to be on a platform that is being heard so that people know, holy, who we are and what we do. And one of the things is that we're not perfect, no one is claiming that, but we definitely do our best to, we strive to be like Christ and to do what he would do and what he's asking of us. So that was one of the beautiful things that I took out of the whole process was just this shy and reserved person that didn't want to share my life with other people, but then I'm now. I can't attest to that. You knew that, but I'm like still surprised that you called on me. And I remember the first thing that I said was yes, I didn't even hear the whole, you know, spiel, I just said yes, because I knew that I didn't want to argue with people about what I was doing. Most of the time people don't know I'm a member of the church, but there's something about my character that draws them in. And then when they find out it's like, well, it doesn't equate, right? But it's what we are doing every day, how we're walking every day. And I don't want that to get lost in the noise of the world. So I encourage others to the same just as you encourage me to, you know, do my part and speak. I hope to, I hope that this now, right, from the book to the podcast and to whatever else we can see in the world, I will encourage others to step up and speak up about things that matter to them. One thing that you said that I loved was I want my voice to be heard of other people who are going to be talking about me. I need to be speaking. And insider information publishing houses in Utah are talking about our voice. And the big thing that's coming up is if we don't tell our stories, who's going to? And so this is the big push. One of the big pushes within the publishing community here in Utah is that who of us can separate being a member of the church from how we live our lives. And if we're not the ones sharing our stories, then we've got shows like the one with you Grant and the sister missionaries and the Secret Life of Mormon Wives and the sister wives. I mean, there are just so many, but there's not anything on the other side really, except for within the LDS community. And so the point is to try and push out of our community so that people can hear the other side of the story who aren't members of the church or don't live in Utah or the Mormon corridor. So yeah, definitely important for people to be leaning out of their comfort zones if that's what it is and learning how to speak because I think it's that time.

17:06 Esther It's the time of the world. It definitely is time because opportunities like this is becoming a bit more available. I mean, you can post a TikTok. You could post something on Instagram. You can literally record from your home, from your space and share something that might be something that might be needed for someone else. But most people don't realize, don't know this part, that from concept to publication, the book came together in under 70 days. That is unheard of publishing. Unheard of. So yeah. Talk to us a little bit about that. Okay. So just a little quick history of how it started. Part of my job is to fill the production schedule for Cedar Fort for the following year. And when I was moved into the position, nobody really explained to me how quickly I needed to fill the schedule. So we got to October or September. And one of the ladies that works for Cedar Fort Tanya was like, Hey Emily, the schedule is looking pretty sparse for next year. And I was like, it is? And she's like, yeah. And I said, well, where should it be filled out to? And she said, October of the following year. And I was like, we're filling out January right now. So there was definitely a bit of panic on my side, especially because at that point, everybody had been saying no to everything. I had been bringing to the panel. And so I spent probably all of the month of September in heavy prayer, like constantly daily prayer asking for help to fill the schedule. And it was during that time, actually, it would have been August that I started praying. And for a solid month, just all the time. And then one day I saw that post that I mentioned earlier where everybody was kind of teasing and making fun of the whole swingers side of the Hulu show. And the very next day or soon after I was driving to work and I saw the billboard on the free way for the Secret Life's Mormon Wives and remembered that post. And I started laughing because the post was, it was really funny. It's really funny. I'd love to publish just that because it was really a hoot to see what probably me. 90% of the comments were women just making fun. Members of the church, just making fun of this silly concept of members of the church being swingers. And so I started laughing and then in that moment of sort of hilarity on my drive to work, it hit me the not so secret life's of real Mormon Wives. And I knew that that was the answer that I'd been praying for for a solid month. And I was about 10 minutes from work at this point. And I grabbed all of my stuff, walked right into my boss's office with like, I had two 32-ounce crafts and a lunch bag in my backpack and my coat. And I walked in and I was like, but as a Secret Life's of real Mormon Wives and Bryce was like, yes, yes, let's do that. And I said, great, I have a spot in March for it. And he said, no, I want it done by November. And I was... What month was this? This was the end of September, let's see, September, October, November. Yeah, it was the end of September. And I remember being like shocked to the point where I couldn't like argue. So I just went, oh, okay. And I got, I'm like, I guess I better go get to work. So I got up carrying all my junk into my office and I sat down and Sam, who used to be our vice

21:09 Esther president of sales and marketing swivels in a shower to look at me. And I don't know if I was like sheet-wide or something, like what have I just gotten myself into? But he goes, you okay there? And I told him what had happened. And he was like, oh. And the rest of that day consisted of me reaching out to people to see if they'd be interested in doing the book and explaining to everybody in the company what had just happened. And everyone was really excited, which was fun. Right away people were getting invested and getting interested. And within a two days Kyle, our managing editor and Sam, again, our VP of sales marketing, both came in with lists of women for me to contact that their wives had given them. So it was like, here, give this family, make her reach out. I was like, thank you. And it was really, I mean, honestly, so quite helpful. We had almost everybody by the end of the first week. It took another week before we filled our last spot. And then we told all the ladies, you have six weeks to write your part. And most of you had not written anything. And yet. Aside from emails. Yeah. Maybe a few papers here and there in college. Yeah. Very versed in emails. A blog made me blog post. Back in the day when blogs were like. We're big. We're a big thing. I'm trying to think. I don't think anyone out of a blog, did you have a blog? I had, oh my goodness. I had a blog that was private. And even then I hated it because I was like, I don't need to share my life with anyone. And this will never be public. Right. Anything on it. And the idea of sharing my life with families that were in, like with me was always very odd, let alone random people in the universe. No. Right. So guy in Turkey, I am into these more wives. I'm going to watch this. That was the extent to my writing. I did more reading than writing than, you know, you know, I'm married to a writer. Someone who's just naturally natural at writing. So I spent more of my time reading his work because I just, I do love, he's a great writer. And I love the way that he writes. So I hear that voice and the cadence. So when I write and hear my voice, it just doesn't sound, it did in the past. It didn't feel like it sounded as beautiful as what he wrote. So the comparison monster. Right. The comparison monster. But even that I was just like, oh, well, he's doing it for both of us. So I'm good. I don't, I don't need to put my, I don't need to put my stuff out there. But, um, so this was, this was definitely something that was new. But more importantly, when you called me, I know that I said yes because I knew who you were.

24:31 Esther And I said yes because you have always been very intentional in what you do, um, how you do it. And I know that it's always from a good place. And that relationship that I have with you is the reason why I didn't need explanation, where I didn't need to second guess, how am I going to write this stuff, let alone, I didn't even hear the, by the way, we have six weeks part. That was after the fact, right? But it was just more like, you know what? I trust Emily and if Emily had this vision and it's truly divine and it really did feel divine to me because I had the same reaction when, you know, when I first saw the, the, um, the, what is it, the commercial? The trailer. Yeah. The trailer. And I just remember like, really miles like, oh, here we go again. All my family members and friends are going to be reaching out to ask me weird questions that I have no idea that I don't partake of, right? And I'm, and I just get think, I just, so my reaction was like, oh, here we go again. And then I just set it aside because I was, I knew it wasn't part of my life and I, you know, just parked it has nothing to do with it. But when you came along and said, Hey, I have the go to do this, all I remember saying was sign me up. And then I got off the phone and I was like, huh, sign me up. Like, who's going to write this? Who's going to write my story? Like I have to write my story and do I even have time to do to write my story. I think everyone was feeling that. Right. And then we find out the deadline and then I was like, well, I guess we're not going to have a story because this is going to be hard. But, um, it brings me to this question, which you worked with eight women all from different walks of life. Backgrounds, cultures and perspective. What was the biggest challenge? Um, the biggest concern that I always have when I'm editing somebody's manuscript is maintaining their voice, especially if they're a newer writer. I want to be encouraging. Um, some, but sometimes, especially if you're newer, things have to go or things have to be rewritten or things have to be added or moved around. And, um, what I have found and partially because it's my experience, if I feel like somebody is really trying their hardest to maintain my voice when they're helping me with my stuff, then I trust them more. And so that was really important to me. Um, that everybody know, okay, I might go into your document and add like a paragraph of suggestions. In fact, there was a couple of them that I wanted them to have, um, more intimacy in the pages with the stories of their husbands. And they were like skimming over it. And I was like, oh no, I'm a romance author. We're adding in a kissy and right here. And then, uh, We are recreating all of them. Right. And there was a couple of times where I did like a couple paragraphs of like, okay, we're going to make this super romantic. And I knew, I knew specifically a couple of ladies that I'm thinking about, both of them were like, uh, I didn't have like dialing it back. But they kept some of what I wanted, which was my intention. And like, if I give them a ton, they'll cut out what they want, won't, don't, don't want, but we'll still have, you know, some of it.

28:09 Esther So that was kind of the big thing is making sure that people maintain their voice and also knowing just because I put something in doesn't mean you have to keep it. It's a suggestion so that you know what I'm looking for. And then, um, just, you know, making sure that, that they were telling the story, following their story arc, following their theme for their stories and really hitting it. Like yours was so fun for me because you knew from the beginning, my theme is the broker. And it's not just because I'm a broker in my business, but also because I've always been a broker of relationships. And I remember when you said that thinking, that's so true. This is going to be a piece of cake. Like she knows exactly. It's the same with Carrie. Carrie's being his hands. Like it made it so much easier. And Carrie had so many stories she wanted to tell. I had to sort of pick things out that I'm like, that doesn't really work with the theme. So we're just going to take this out. And it wasn't just Carrie. There's a few other things. But like I said, it starts to, you start writing and you start remembering things that you wouldn't have remembered. You see connections in hindsight, right? Because we're looking back at our lives at this point, as opposed to just moving forward and just lifeing. When you're lifeing, you're just making decisions at the whim, right? But this opportunity for us was to look back. And yes, we know that God is always there. And he's always little, you know, like he's with us at all times. But solemn do we look back, like half that moment to really sit and reflect on how he has had a hand in our lives. So this, the opportunity to write this gave that to me. It really gave me that to kind of look back at my life, each stages from that 11-year-old child that was brought to the United States many years ago to the college student, to the wife and to the mother and to the businesswoman. So it gave me that opportunity to go through stages of my life that I just had just parked. So this was a great opportunity all around. And in doing so, allowed me to get to this point of, again, having this podcast and having space to share my story in a way that I hope will reach other people. And that's all because you receive the calling, you accepted it, and then you reached out. So I don't know where our stories will be 10, 20 years from now. I know it's interesting to see about that. It's very fascinating to know that we're part of this tapestry, right? This tapestry of history that's still unfolding. And our story goes back 15 years when we really first met when I moved here to Utah. And I just loved everything about you. I just remember you walking in, you had that. What is that actress's name? Umar Thurman. Umar Thurman. Yes, you had the long blonde hair. You walked and I was like, shit, it's cute. And I just remember you were just so stunning, but you were also very approachable and very open. And from that time of knowing you, this is why it's when you call to ask me for anything. It's just always a yes until I have to like. Exester. Ignore your call because I'm like, I don't want to say yes. I know she's going to ask for something that I know is important. I'm really tired at this point. Oh, I cannot say yes anymore because who this is a lot.

31:47 Esther You're asking a lot, but I do appreciate it. And I really do appreciate you thinking of me as you were doing this because it has definitely changed my life. Your name kept popping into my head through the whole day. I mean, there's the obvious answers of why I wanted you. Your convert, you're from Nigeria, you're in an interracial marriage. Like those are the basics. But also it's the fact that people are you're like a magnet. People want to be around you. People find you and then you just collect them. And now I do. I do. I do collect people. It's the broker. It's the broker that we were talking about. And it's also, I mean, kind of going back just a little bit, but it was part of why it was so fascinating with everybody. And gain a lot of the analysis. I mean, just everybody in the. They all had a very special light and calling about them. Every single person. And it's just so beautiful to get to know them. Writing their stories helped them see, I think also that they had stories worth telling, which I think a lot of you maybe didn't realize. And I just want to point this out because just as an example, because it was so beautiful to see how this worked in your story, that your theme was the broker. And it's mostly about you pulling bringing people together and how relationships have impacted your life. But at the end, it was a full circle to how those relationships, instead of you impacting other people, it was to how they impacted you with Naomi's story. And it was the broker being there for other people to the other people being there for the broker. And it wasn't just your story. There were other stories that had these sort of full circle circle moments where they were like, I hadn't looked at it that way. I hadn't seen it. I didn't know that this is my story. And all of a sudden, I mean, you should go out and write your own stories is basically what I'm saying, because all the sudden. And if you don't want to write it recorded, yeah, you'll see your life in a different. It's so amazing. So now who was the biggest procrastinator in this process? Esther. But you were in the only way. Everybody had their issues. Except for Allison, I should say, let me explain to Allison. Well, Allison is a professional writer and she's amazing. So we actually had all of our eight ladies. And I think it was two weeks or it was probably less. And for me, for the most part, I think we had maybe two or three people who said no. But everybody else was a yes. But we did have one lady who joined and I was just having a really hard time contacting her every time I reached out. It was just non-responsive. And it turns out she just had a lot of stuff going out. So she had to back out. But she backed out when we had one week left to get the story done. Wow. And I went in. So I didn't know that.

34:57 Esther Yeah, I went on to full on panic mode and was like, who am I going to get to fill this spot? And I was in. And to write within one week. To write within one week. And I was like, we could probably push it to two weeks. Like, that's going to go into my editing time. But we could probably do that. So I'm like compromising to try and make this work. And I was in my writing group. And the lady said, my friend, Joel and Brown, she said to me, well, what's your wish list? Like, what is your number one that you would like? And I said, one, she's Asian. Two, if she's not Asian, she has brown hair and three, anyone I can get, like in that order, that's what I'm looking for at this point. And she said, well, how about Alison Hong-Meryl? And the name sounded kind of vaguely familiar, but I was kind of drawing a blank. But I went on to Facebook and I looked her up and I was like, oh yeah, we're friends. Like I know who she is. We're friends on Facebook. And I got ahold of her Saturday. It was conference. So Friday, I was talking to my writing group. Saturday, I sent her a message. Sunday morning, she responded with a very emphatic, yes, please, let me be a part of this. By Tuesday, she had the first half of her story to me and by Friday, she had all of her full pages to me. So I didn't even have to give her two weeks. She was done. Meanwhile, I was still trying to get mine in. But everybody had issues in their own ways. Like honestly, you know- It's okay. You don't have to make me feel good. I'm very aware of my limitations. But it's for real though. Like I can't say that anybody's- anybody was perfect. No means by no means was that the case. But what was amazing about everyone was their willingness to take the edits, to buckle in. And okay, we're going to do another one now. We're going to do another one. And honestly, it was probably a good thing that we had a deadline because I probably would have done two or three more edits on three or four of the stories if I could have. Because for me, I was like, I really want to help them make it shine and have it be the best right. And this is like the editor perfectionist to me. Like I really want to do that. And we just- we didn't have the time. But the cool thing was is after we were done and I was reading through all the stories later, I was reading through Kimberly's section. And Kimberly, her story is the advocate. And her son has Down syndrome. And she is also an amazing zoom bus teacher. Zoom bus, yeah. And she's been on like people magazine and all like people all over. She's pretty well known in her sphere. And anyway, I was reading through her section and I just remember getting really overwhelmed and thinking, oh my goodness, this book is going to be an amazing missionary tool. And I had felt that way through everybody's story, but it was in that moment after reading through all the pages that had just kind of hit me like holy crap.

38:14 Esther And I started crying and I- this was like a normal thing for me during the process of this. I'm not a very like emotional person, but I started crying. I know I'm like, I'm broken. I'm broken. Someone turned the fossil on. I can't get it off now. And at this point, I probably cried like four or five times in a month. And I started crying again and Sam, poor Sam VP of sales marketing was like, is it next to you wondering like what is it the air? Yeah, he like squiveled and he's like, you know, I think you've cried like once or twice a day. And I'm like, it was only like four or five times this month. He's like, I don't know. I'd like to defer. I'm like, it's so good. So that is just I remember reading like there's the other ladies sections and I was just really really impressed. I think sometimes is we go through our lives and we just think that like our our life is like so difficult. Our life is so overwhelming. And then when you reach someone else's story, you're like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. That's I got I got it pretty good. I remember one of the things that I loved about the book was how raw it was and honest and just just people just sharing their very specific life and each story is even though the theme and the overall, you know, thought of it is similar that it's all centered around Christ and our love for him. But what is so beautiful is just how different they all. Yeah. Caroline with her parents. Yes. I mean, that story is just amazing. And the way she tied everything into the temple, Shailah story, which focused on her life is a as a runner. Oh, that that like both me and I was just so so that was very relatable because my sister and I have this thing with numbers. My sister in Nigeria has a restaurant called 11 11. And so when I read that, I was like, Oh, yeah, this is this is good. This is going to be really good. You're going to have to read it. At the end, what we're talking about at the end, I was like, this has to be a movie. It has to be a movie with her three to one. Yes, because it was it was so or was it one two three? No, it was three to one. Sorry. I don't remember. But it was definitely numbers that repeated and it was something that meant a very specific thing to that family. Then nobody else would have known unless they were within that family. And that was that was so like I had the goosebumps, right? The goosebumps and it was amazing. And then just everything about this in the story and one of the other things that it also did for me was we hadn't met the eight of us hadn't met during this whole six weeks of writing. So we didn't know what anyone was writing about. We didn't get to read each other's stories until it wasn't until like toward the end. We even I don't even know if we read each other's story. It was by the time that we had the photo shoot.

41:29 Esther No, you hadn't. You had not read each other's stories. So we met we all met at the same time. And I remember one of the ladies that we met was I remember you telling me, oh, you're going to love this. You're going to love this person. You know, she had like similar personality as me. And then when I met her, I was like, I already know her. I met her. Yeah, I met her at a different event. And we just clicked and we were having fun dancing, just random, having a great time at that event like like almost a year earlier. And so when we met, she was the only person that I knew. But I just remember feeling the sense of sisterhood, right? With with everyone there. We I remember just giving everyone hugs like listen, we're here, bring it in. I think Carrie's introverted, but she's very brave. Love her. And one thing that I remember happening at the well, aside from the fact that she had her metal of like the metal that she'd been given by Queen Elizabeth. And she was like, should I wear this? I'm like, slap that bad boy on. Absolutely. You bring that. And the more that you read her story and you're like, oh, you absolutely are in this like this. What you've accomplished is amazing. She just showed her personality so strong at the thing because at the photo shoot because she was sitting next to Allison at one point and Allison, I think was really nervous. And Carrie reached over and took her hand. And I was like, and then Allison lit up and was like, okay, like I can feel the the sisterhood now. It was and just everybody was like that. I mean, it was really amazing to see. So we're not sister wise, but we definitely have a sense of sisterhood. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't live next to each other. We don't interact all the time, but we do anymore who's way down in the same George, because she abandoned it. But we do have a sisterhood that has definitely formed out of this. And these are now truly my sisters. And I know that I can call on them. And they know they can call on me. Frankly, one of the events that we had where we had a speaking event, Allison called on me, right? And maybe we'll add that clip in this podcast to just share to the world how she called on me. But that is the friendship that we've all gained from this. So it's it's beyond and which is also a different reflection of what the world assumes that members of the church are. Because those women and that show there's a lot of backstabbing. And I understand that there's a lot of editing that goes behind to sort of make it look like maybe they're worse with each other than they are. But it still like presents an image of how we are that's. Or just women in general, right? Just women in general. That is not what we feel. That is not what we do. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. Yeah.

44:14 Esther But it definitely isn't what everyone. Yeah. And not every woman in the church feels and goes through. Exactly. And not to give too much away. But even Fernanda had a situation recently. She's down in St. George just moved there. And we all found out about it. And we're really worried about her. And one of the ladies went and visited her the day or two days after it happened. I mean, this is what is going on in the group. We've extended our community. We've extended the members of our village. And we have that now because of this. And I don't think that we would have had that had you not again not accepted that calling and followed through with it. Because of what you've done, you've allowed everyone else to gain this bigger sense of community, biggest sense of like villages that they can call on. So I brought you on this podcast to really give you your, your what do you call it, give you your props, give you your, you know, the credit and the kudos that you deserve. Because I don't want your voice to be forgotten in all of this because I know that people see it as eight women wrote this book. But we wouldn't have done that had you not received that revelation and gone and done your part to do that. So it's incredible. And I never want to forget that. And I want this to be recorded and kept for the rest of our lives. I want history to have your name in the record book. Okay. So it was it was definitely a special experience. I of course had experiences where I felt Heavenly Father guiding me when I was on my mission and in other times of my life. But the entire experience really just felt like he was holding me by the elbows and leading me. And so that was really, really special to have that experience. Yeah. Thank you. So I know in my part it talks about my life is, you know, when I came here from Nigeria and how like immigrating to the US and building a life here in Utah and how I really impacted them. That's what people talk about when they read my part. So when you edited my my chapter, what stood out to you? What stood out to you when you edited my part? And honestly, the it's the whole broker theme that we've talked about. I mean, it was really so powerful to see how you wove that in with with moving, you know, even just participating your dad's meeting to coming here and making friends with that girl, how you met rich. Like I said, you're just kind of this magnet. And then Eddie, just keep on going throughout and seeing how you are pulling people in and making friends with people. And then ultimately how when you needed all of those people because of how you are with them, so like how you trust me, that's how people feel about you in terms of how much they love you and want to be there for you. And so to have that story of how everybody stepped up to fast and pray for Naomi was really such a beautiful full circle moment where it's okay, she's not just helping people and people are taking advantage of your kindness. She's collecting people and these people love her and they will do anything for her because she's such a special person. And so for that for me was like such a beautiful way to end the book to show, okay, these are the kind of women that we have, women who can create that kind of feeling within the

47:54 Esther groups around them that they would do this for her, that they would step up and do that for her and ultimately cause a miracle because of it. So yeah. You know, I hadn't thought about that in that sense. And I do thank you for sharing that because when there are a lot of times that there are women out there who do a lot for other people and most of the time they feel unseen. And that is a really clear moment in my life where I knew that it was that power of collective prayer that moved mountains for me. And there was, it was, and I know that without a doubt, you know, people struggle with how do you know? Well, I just, I just know. Like I feel it within my soul that those prayers from Africa to the UK to the US, everyone being on the same. Even not in the same religion. Right. Right. But the same wavelength. Yes. Did impact my life incredibly. This book features such a range of women, entrepreneurs, moms, advocates, immigrants, nonprofit founders. From your lens, what tied all of us together? Your belief in Jesus Christ. Amen. Yeah. It was simple. It was simple. I just needed people who like number one priority, you had to have a strong belief in Jesus Christ. And it was something that was just, it was so much easier than I thought I was going to be like I said, I mean, I, maybe I don't feel like I need a lot of credit because I really felt like this was his project. And like I said, I felt like he was just guiding me and I was just doing it. But really it, it felt like he handpicked and maybe I guessed wrong a couple of times, but he made the way. He made the way. And everybody that was in this book was supposed to be in this book. I do feel that. Yeah. I do feel and see it. And a lot of it is because of the relationship that we all have now, it's incredible. At what point did you realize that this project needed to be a film, not just a book? So that took me by surprise, honestly, because at the time I didn't know we were going to be doing a docu series, Bryce, the CEO of Cedar Fort, suddenly just hit us in a meeting. We're getting people in to do a docu series. And I was like, we are now. And it was so fun to be able to tell everybody that that was going to be happening. And unfortunately, the gentleman that we originally hired were not able to follow through. Like they had things come up and just weren't able to do it. But it was another one of those situations where it felt meant to be because I can't imagine anyone better than Dayline for this project. He just seemed, he was like a missing piece that we didn't know at that point. And Kimberly Dowdell, she, when she found out that our original guys had backed out, she said, are you married to them? Or did anyone else? I don't think she's that exact phrasing, but more or less. And I was like, nope, not at all. And she got ahold of him. And he started filming. And I think it was Dayline really, as he was filming these episodes, just felt the spirit so strongly.

51:38 Esther And he got about three in and just knew it was supposed to be a film. This is what he was supposed to be doing. He even tells this lovely story about how few months prior he had seen the trailer for the show and was like, ugh. The same reaction. That's not quite what we do. Exactly. And I wish I could do something about this, but he didn't really know what to do. And then all of a sudden, Kimberly calls him up and he's like, ugh, this is what I do. Yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do. This is how we're going to make it happen. He talks about looking for a project that was aligned with what he is, who, you know, like there was a very specific project that he was looking for. And this sort of fell into his lab and it's part of like you prayed for something to happen. And he also prayed for something to happen. And it wasn't until we got everything done and we had something solid to actually give to him to move it to the next level. So it's been just miracle over miracle over miracle from that onset of that revelation. Till today, there's still more miracles in order and I am just in awe of all of it, just absolutely in awe. What surprised you the most as the stories move from pages to camera? Well I can tell you what didn't surprise me. The people who had a lot, who had the hardest time opening up and sharing their stories were exactly the same on camera as they were with me when I was trying to pull these things out of them. And then the people who were really open and like easy to get the stories out of them, same on camera. I remember the record. Not that Esther is a hard person to pull stories out of. There are some parts where I was like, you know, I don't want to delve into that too much because it's just, it feels sad and sad is not who I am and sad is not what I feel. And so it's just easier for me to just let that go almost out of sight, out of mind because it's just too many beautiful things to. But then Daelyn and I tag teamed her. Yes, and the water works game. So we actually filmed, we filmed Esther twice and the second time Daelyn and I tag teamed Esther and I remember thinking, gosh, I wish she'd been here when we were working on her section because there was more stuff that I wanted in your section in the book that was the same thing. Like this is private and it's sad and I'm done with it. I don't just feeling. Yeah. But it was something that was important and between the two of us we were able to get some of those stories out of you. I always say that I think that whatever was meant to be has come to fruition and there's someone out there that needs to hear certain things and I am okay with that. I'm okay with just leaving it as is and hopefully in the future we have all the opportunities to share more. But I think for the time we have done exactly what we're supposed to do and whatever else unfolds will just be an added bonus. Bonus. Yeah. Okay. I did actually just think of something that maybe didn't surprise me but was definitely it did surprise me but it was a nice surprise. And also it was not a surprise. I'm going to be explaining. So as we were going from person to person filming the pattern that I noticed is that every single one of these women had husbands who were incredibly supportive and like kind and funny and like giving and just all these things.

55:31 Esther And I was like if that could have been the number for qualification on my list after you being successful like after you being believers in Christ and successful and beautiful. Number four would have been supportive husbands because that was the one thing in the show that drove me crazy is they're like the men in this church are so controlling and they don't want you working and they don't want you doing that. And here we have all of these amazing women doing careers and children and you know we've got Fernanda running bone clothing and Kimberly starting this amazing you know podcast about her son and so on and so forth I could go on about all of them. And their husbands are like my wife is awesome. And I was like Heavenly Father you did hand pick everybody for me because I just thought how amazing is it that all of these women are who they are and have done what they've done and there you have it's the man behind the woman. I definitely feel that that was very important to showcase because there's this misunderstanding that the women in our church are suppressed that we don't have a voice that we strive you know like we are perfect and I'm like so far away from that. I know some days I wake up like yeah we're going back to sleep because this body at this stage of my life needs a nap right now from all the energy I've just expended so there's and those things are not truly reflective of like what a lot of people in the church and you cannot assume that everyone is the same. Like we're not is it Stafford why is it something? We're not bird wife's. Yeah we're not. We're not cookie cutter robot women exactly. Exactly. It doesn't work that are happy cooking in the kitchen or whatever. There's some that are I know that I'm not which is fine. It was just totally fine. They're I know that bring me joy. There are different people and every religion some or stay at home moms some work to each their own but the whole point is is that we don't fit into a cook cutter right. And if you do that, it seems that you failed to get to know something more beautiful that you were just completely missing out on. And what they were... Because there's truly goodness in what we have and what we're doing. And what they showed of men in the show was offensive to me because that's not been my experience with men in the church. Like my dad is amazing, my brothers are amazing, rich. My cousin who Esther is married to is amazing. I'm like, I don't know who they're talking about because I don't know any men like that. The bad apples, the 1%! Exactly! I mean, I've heard stories of course. But in my personal sphere, that is not a thing that exists. So yeah, I was just... I was like, yes. It was another testament to me that this was God's project because I couldn't have found 8 women on my own who hit all those qualifications plus had amazing husbands. Yeah. So for the women watching who feel called to share their stories or testimonies and experiences, what's the first step? What's the very first step? Figure out exactly what it is you want to tell. What is it? What's your story? What is the misrepresentation or the thing that you wish people knew about you or about the church or about whatever it is that is important to you? Figure that out, know what it is really, really well and then expand from there. I mean a perfect example of that. Shayla LDSPrepperGirl. Her thing is preparing for the second coming.

59:41 Esther And she figured that out and she in what like a year created this amazing platform on social media LDSPrepperGirl and a big part of it was just figuring out, okay, who am I? What story do I want to tell? And for her it was really important. I think not even just for her but for her in terms of wanting to share with other people. These are things that you need to prepare for. She can see why the church is always asking us to prepare. I mean COVID-19 was a perfect example of why we should prepare. Because when everyone else is running around buying up everything at the store most members of the church was like, yeah, we've been doing this for years. We're okay. There's like fires in California and hurricanes in Florida and flooding in New Orleans and power out in New York and like just all over the place. And she's like, you think that prepping is not valid for our day and time? Well, I've got five stories from the news from just this last week that shows that it is. That was her story but for somebody else it might be Esther, the Broker's Table. She had to go through this process to figure out that this was her niche. This is what she wanted to talk about. My mission now. So figure out what your mission is. What's important to you. Yeah. And if you listen to the last episode with my husband, we know we talked about the Warrior ethos that we should operate as if we have a mission, you have a vision. And once you know what your mission and vision is, then it's easier, not easier, but it's just better for you to align everything that you do towards that. So if you have something to share, find out what your mission, what is your goal, why do you want to share this? And then make a plan. Make a plan, absolutely. Because a goal without a plan is to dream. It's an incredible dream though. We are going to do a lightning round. One sentence answers only. You ready? Okay. Are we all set deal falling apart or a film test screening? I have no idea what that means. Film test. No, I know what the film test screening is. I'm like, do I pick one? Pick one. Which one would you prefer? Which one to you is better to deal with? Oh, I don't know. Film test screening, I guess. Okay. More in your realm. If you say they're about equal, that was hard. I was not very lightning on that one. More like, is it thunder? That's the lightning. It was like, when you see lightning and thunder comes after, like sometimes really, really delayed. Thunder round. I'm three miles away. We're actually probably more like 10 miles away. It took me a really long time to get this. My brain is not competing right now.

62:52 Esther It's okay. If our book group had a reality show, what's the title? Um, lightning. Just give the thunder a second. I don't know. I mean, the obvious name would be the not so secret life's a real Mormon wife. Okay, I'll give you that. I'll give you that. So from scale of one to soft swing scandal, how wild did our group chat get during the days leading up to the movie premiere? That's the name. Bless this group chat. Bless the name of the show. Bless this group chat. Yeah. One, 10, seven. Okay. I don't think it was too crazy. Well, there was nine people in it and 10 after a while. They were like, yeah, and the producers. Oh my gosh. That one. And there was like 20 people in that one. I thought it was really great though. I think, um, perhaps it was because our vision and our mission was very Christ centered. It was everything was always aligned. Everyone was more. Yeah, it was positive, encouraging and just staying true to the task. And even the day of the premiere was beautiful. Like I have a picture of all the ladies standing around the table with the signing and signing. Like we all had jobs and we all did it well. And it was just a beautiful moment to like take in and that that's one of my favorite pictures. Everyone standing around smiling and, you know, writing during their signatures and being very intentional in what they were in what we have all been doing like for the past what 70 days. Right. Okay. Year and two months now. Okay. Um, this is going to be hard, but whose chapter would you reread in an airport for eight hours? Only one chapter. Yes. In an airport for eight hours? First of all, who's at the airport for eight hours? I feel like you've at the airport. It's the government shutdown still. Yeah. But I digress. Oh, shoot. I don't know. I love them all. Like I read everybody's chapters a ton, but I guess maybe Allison's just because she was so unique and I think her writing is so intentional and she has just this beautiful technique that one answer. Yeah. One answer you were supposed to give me just one word answer. Oh, one word. Allison. We are not doing very well with this lightning round. We should call it the thundering round.

65:39 Esther Or is it an earthquake aftershocks? Like days later? It could be. Okay. Last one. We're really big thunderstorm. I mean, I don't know. I, okay. I'm about to, I'm going to digress even more because lightning and thunder is one of my favorite like iceberg movies. I, mm. Okay. Has it melted? Hasn't like sticking like. It's just moving a little like melts a continental drift. Come back to me in 10,000 years and I will have moved two inches. All right. Okay. What's scarier editing eight covenant women are cutting their favorite paragraph? Neither. Neither. No. Okay. Look at you with the actual lightning round. Amazing. I'm learning. It's too late. We're done. I only went, I only got it right on one question, but he got it right on one question. Love you. Emily, thank you so much for championing our stories, not with sensation and allism, but with intention and faith. If you want the real stories behind the headlines, pick up the not so secret lives of real Mormon wives and watch for the film, Women in Christ, it will move you. I'm Esther. This is the Broke was table. Your story is an asset. Invest it with purpose. Emily, thank you so much for being here. I love you and I appreciate you and I'm glad that we're actually getting time to hang out today because this is very rare. We had to schedule it into a podcast to me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me at the Broke was table. If today's conversation inspired you, please subscribe, share and leave a review. I'm Esther Jackson Stowell. Until next time, keep brokering faith, family and freedom.