Built Different: Passion, Purpose & The Cost of Sacrifice

0:09 Esther Welcome to the Berkus table. I'm Esther Jackson Stowell and today, listen, I have been looking forward to this conversation for a very long time. My guest today is someone I don't just admire from a distance. I've watched this woman build. I've seen what happens behind the Instagram post and the magazine covers. I've been in the rooms where she's working when nobody's watching and I can tell you what she's done is not normal. What she's done is extraordinary. Tenisha Brown is the founder and editor-in-chief of the Impact Magazine, a publication she started in 2007 in Trenton, New Jersey with 75 readers and zero sponsors. Today, that magazine reaches over 200,000 people monthly. She's built a television network on Amazon. She's been in essence, O Magazine, Tom Magazine, on BET, on NASDAQ, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Meta, Comcast. They all partnered with her. City Bank named her a woman to watch. Utah Business put her under 30 women to watch list. And her magazine, the entire archive, now sits in the University of Utah's Marriott Library alongside institutional collections. She did all of that after moving to Salt Lake City from Atlanta during a pandemic as a single mother and she self-funded every bit of it for 11 years before a single corporate dollar came through the door. Tenisha Brown, welcome to the Brokeless table. Thanks for having me. That was amazing. Go there, girl. Before any of this, you were at Merrill Lynch, almost nine years. Good career, stability, and then 2009 happened. Bank of America bought Merrill Lynch and you were laid off. Take me there. What was going on? Oh, Lord. Hmm. So that's a great question. Back then, I was just discovering this new purpose, right? I would go into work every day and buy like 10 a.m. I was done because it was easy for me. And my boss, her name was Jennifer Watson. I'll never forget. She didn't care. She was just like, okay, whatever, long as the work is done. And so I'll never forget I was sitting at my desk and I was trying to, I was just sitting there and I felt like I was wasting my life because I'm sitting at my desk. I'm done work and I have to be here at a five o'clock. And so it came to me like, so what are you going to do with your life? And the things I started thinking about were what was I doing at the moment that gave me pleasure, purpose, you know? And at the time I was doing my church newsletter and that's the thing that was granting the most fulfillment, you know? And I was thinking about all of the things that people would comment on about it as far as the graphics and the content, you know? And I was like, you know what? I could start a magazine just sitting there just, you know, just, you know, my thought was like, I could start a magazine. And I'm like, I could take this around, you know, everything for as the possibility just came to me. And I was like, okay, so I took the whole 2007 to research. That's me, I'm going to research. And I'm a Gemini. So that I don't know if people are in a show, whatever, but if you know, I'm going to wear both Gemini. So I get it. So it's like, you know, it's like, we're going to make sure the thing is the thing. We're going to check it out and just be sure. And so I did that the whole 2007 and then 2008, nine, President Obama's in, you know, you're like, it's time. And I was like, it was during that time, that's when he was getting everything together. And the bank took over what is it called? Merrill Lynch. And I'll never forget I was sitting home. I was on my couch. And I had gotten laid off. And when President Obama was like, we're going to do what we can for the American people. If they're laid off because of these things, we're going to make sure they're good. And I said, amazing. I could take this time and just do what I need to do. As far as the magazine, this is my time. Because at that time, I had already launched. I saw the people wanting what I was putting out. And I understood that content was king, you know. And so I was like, yes, I could do this. So I took my unemployment check. And that was all my way to, you know, get trying to figure this thing out, like what would work as long as my household expenses were taken care of. I was like, oh, we can go. We can go. So I snatched up my son. And we moved around the country to launch it. And that's, that's where it started. Do you feel like all of that was sort of a blessing in the skies? You know, had that not happened, you know, around that time, there was a huge crisis in America. Right. Everyone was just like, oh, everything is terrible. Right. But sometimes God has a way to like create situations so that it can shift you into your purpose. Right. So do you feel that in that instance, you took ownership of your purpose, you identified your purpose, right? Because you knew that where you were at at Merrill Lynch, going in and finishing what you were doing at by 10 a.m. Because you're good. Right. And as Gemini, as we get things done. Right. And, and then feeling like you kind of wasted away. But then you saw, but then God kind of put you in that position where it's like, okay, we're not just going to make you sit at that job anymore. We're going to give you all that space. Right. And now you have to create something and fall into your purpose. Yeah, that was a great time. And I knew God had given me that time. It was,

6:40 Esther and that time lasted five years. Wow. I took full advantage of it. Like people were offering me jobs and everything. And I'm like, no, because I knew this was the time that I would have to be able to build. And so yeah, I took it. I took complete advantage of it. And I learned so many things of, you know, during that time. Wonderful. And one of the other things that you talked about was you did your research. Oftentimes people, you know, there's so many opportunities out there. And everyone like it's every day. There's always something. Right. But you took the time to delve into this path to do your research. And I remember in one of our conversations, you've talked about how you've reached out to people that were already in that field. Right. And just said, hey, how do you do this? Right. And that's one of the beautiful parts of being an entrepreneur is being able to get out of your comfort zone and ask questions and consult the experts. Right. And then turn it into something that you have. Right. And build from there. So it's really impressive to see that you've done that. Yeah. Well, I, it was a guy in my neighborhood named Darren Morris. He had a magazine, a newspaper magazine. So it was the fold out kind like the New York Times. And he talked about the goodness that was in our neighborhood. And from graduations who got a job and it was a money maker for him. And I'm like, oh, he was doing that. And this, he's doing good. Oh, wow. And he's telling our stories. And so I never forget, I reached out to him. Plus I knew him, you know, and I'm like, you know, I need to know about this business. I'm thinking about doing the magazine. I said, not like yours. I said, my mind will focus on black people all over. And it will be a traditional magazine, not a newspaper. And from that moment, I learned two things. Never be in fear about someone else doing something like you're doing. Because the first thing he said was less set up sometime. Come on to my office. And he sat me down, you know, and he gave me the game. It wasn't like he was just like, oh, no, I don't have time. And she's trying to take over what I'm doing. He was secure enough in his spot where he was like, come on over here. And he sat me down. And he gave me the blueprint of just things to look out for, where to go advertising, and just a plethora of information for this business that, and then two weeks, I don't even think it was two weeks later, he died. Yes. Wow. I've never heard that. Yeah. Tell me that. That's incredible. That is so interesting. Because one of the things that I always tell people that when people talk to me is, I want to share all the information I have, because first of all, this Google, right, someone will figure it out. And now I have AI and chat GPT people will figure it out. So there's no point of you like hoarding information, and then when people usually get concerned with, well, I don't want you to do what I'm doing because you're going to cut it into my profit. There's over 8 billion people on it. You will always have a customer. You will always have your profit. You will always have your portion. So being concerned with what someone else is doing or trying to be part of yourself is just not the greatest place to be. But if you have that confidence to know that, hey, there's so many other people on earth. Someone will see my stuff. Someone will appreciate this. And I'm glad that you had someone do that for you. And it's so amazing. Because one of the things that I would also think about is if I hoard this information, if I hoard this knowledge, I could die tomorrow. Someone will still figure it out. But how wonderful would it be that now you have him and you can still speak his name and he's been living on forever because of what he did for you because he did not hoard that because he shared with you and he showed you the way. So thank you for being that example of letting people know that it's okay to share and just know that even if I want another thing that I tell people is they can take whatever I'm doing, but they'll never be me. Never. Ever be me. So that and that information you've seen enough folks absolutely and I think that's that's why it's easy for me to support you in what you're doing. And because we need that for one another, is you're doing something that I love. I could possibly do it, but I don't want to. I don't want to because that's not my purpose. This is your purpose and you're doing it extremely well. And I get to benefit from that. Because I can now bring people over and say, hey, come be a part of this thing. Come see what Tenisha has done today. Come see what she's doing because you might benefit from that as well. So I'm glad that you have that and you're able to now be that for other people. Yes. Thank you so much for that, Tenisha. Thank you. So during this time too, you were a single mom and you're getting ready to bet everything on your purpose. What did people think about you doing that and how did it impact your son? I didn't consult people because that's not me. That's not the gym and I want. No, I will consult my Google search. Right. But what I did do, I did before I initially launched the magazine, I did speak with my family, my friends. I did go to them to see first of all, to get family support because I have very great support system with my family. I went to my friends to see because everyone I was around was so talented. And I'm like, do you want to be down? Either you're going to get, I'll never forget I said this, you're going to get on the merry go around and go around with me to this thing or you don't have

12:47 Esther to get on or you can hop off at any time because this is my dream and I know that you are connected in some way but might not be all the way. But when I decided to go around the country and move and all that kind of stuff, I didn't consult anybody. I didn't want to hear someone tell me you should think about this maybe no, no because I'm just like, I didn't want to hear that. And I didn't even discuss it with my son and that's one of the things as a parent now that my son is older, that I wish I would have set my son down because he was young. He was like nine years old. And I based a lot of things on my growing up and how I adjusted and how I was okay. But I didn't base it on my son being only child, my son not having people close to him at a time to share and do and take his mind off of we're going to be living here for a year and then move somewhere else another year and then move some. So those are the things I think back on in building this thing that if I could give anyone advice is to look at your children and think about the consequences are not just for you. They are for your children also. But I'll never forget it was a certain point in my son's life he came and he got it and we talked about, you know, he understood the sacrifices. He didn't like it but he understood it. So yeah, and at that time I just I looked at the opportunity and I knew that I could not lay around and wait for this world to decide that it was going to be good to me. Far as like taking care of my son making sure I have somewhere to live and not having to worry about if the government shuts down I get my unemployment check. I just couldn't do that. I'm like I have a son and he's growing and he needs these things and so I was just like okay we're gonna go and I packed up my stuff what I could I got in my car and the first place I went to was North Carolina and once I got there I got a place and I was like okay I'm gonna stay here. I called back home to my sister and I was like oh I'm not coming back to that apartment. Y'all could take everything out of there and you can have it and yeah and my brother went there moved my stuff gave my stuff to my you know I'm not attached to things. And which is a beautiful thing because that's that's huge and I like that story because it's an opportunity for people to because everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Yeah they don't want to be an entrepreneur but they don't understand the intricate parts of being an entrepreneur and it's knowing things like that. You may have to move that you you may have to stand on purpose and and really follow that to like the end the end of the earth with it. You might have to sleep on couches like I've I slept on couches I slept in the bed with my friend who let me stay at her house it's like and my son slept on her couch you know and so it's it's just things that we have to sacrifice and thinking now thinking through my son didn't understand that you know I grew up like that but my son I was working at Maryland trying money you know what I mean I had a great job that you know nice car he had nice house you know motorcycle all that kind of stuff. So he understood that life he didn't understand the sacrifice so you know that's why I tell people you know you have to think about the consequences your children will go once you do what a 180 and you're like okay now we're going this way kids looking at you like you crazy you know you mentioned how young he was and there's a tendency in our culture to just assume that like they just have to do what we tell them to do right so you don't explain right and which is something that I'm taking a different approach with with my family right is and it's different I love that well huh I love it but it's excess talking because that's what I see the need for it right and my stories are like one of those things that teach me to say you have to involve them you have to just even if they don't fully understand right but the fact that they are aware they have an awareness of what's happening right and that life isn't just happening to them but they're a part of it right then it it makes a difference I'm hoping yeah that I think I'll let you know in about 20 years I think they will be the better for it because I didn't start talking to my son until my mom told me my son was about 12 13 and I began to talk to him about the sacrifices about all of the stress and then I'm like oh lord this is too much for a 13 year old you know but learning to like you you understand a dynamic you understand each of your children you understand who can take what and who can at the time I'm trying to build a business I'm trying to make sure I was in survival mode and all my thought was to survive each day you know and that was it it wasn't that I didn't think about was sit down you have to talk to him you got to get an understanding of why he's acting out in school girl you just move from having a luxury car now you getting rods with people like he he's looking at you like what is going on where's the crack because this lady is happening something is happening and it must be something detrimental like drugs or something and no it was purpose the one thing I used to always tell him is that this is going to work out this is going to work out I know it is and you know because you believe in yourself yeah yeah absolutely in yourself and to credit you you were also thinking of him I was you needed to work out in other for you to take care of him right in other for you to show him what was possible what was possible for a single black mom right getting everything done by herself so I hope he sees that you know we need to have him up here we will

19:48 Esther so at this time it is not easy you're starting off and which is what a lot of entrepreneurs feel at the beginning you're you're you have your end goal in mind but your end goal and the finances are not coming as quick as you your dream you know wishes for it to be right how did you manage that and what were you talked about how you basically finance this process sponsors came later on right tell me walk me through what you were feeling what you were doing to get by to keep your hope up and to keep your focus on your purpose as long as I had that unemployment check I was fine because my thought was as long as I could take care of home I'm going to be fine and so that's why I moved first to North Carolina somewhere that was cheaper than New Jersey and I was able to do what I could do there and then my son father reached out for me to come to Atlanta and so I of course researched I lived in Atlanta when I first had gotten out of high school but that was on some you know we're not gonna talk about that yeah but now I'm a parent you know so I had took my son and we drove down there and to see you know if it was possible that's me anywhere I'm like is it possible for me to be here and I saw a young lady that I knew lived there and she was telling me about the apartments and everything and so I'm like okay I could do this and so I went got an apartment it was cheaper than in Atlanta than North Carolina and so one really yeah yeah that is very interesting yeah bigger and cheaper and so I was like okay I knew if I had gotten to Atlanta things were just going to work I had saw how niche black magazines were making it happen and be and I'm like oh my gosh this is has to be the place I'll be able to make all this money you know and I'm just gonna be you know living it up and so I left North Carolina and moved to Atlanta and when I had gotten there now I'm doing all this on unemployment this is not like I'm getting all of this money from advertising and no this is all my money on unemployment trying to figure this thing out and so during that time that is when um it just happened so much when I went to Atlanta that was a whole different game far as like niche media where they were like it was Derek Blanks coming on to the um scene he started being on a housewives and Derek Blanks is a renowned photographer he does some amazing stuff and at the time he has started his um alter ego um photography where is like you and you as this one thing and you're alter ego okay in a picture and so I'm seeing all of this and like Atlanta media was on another level and so I'm like okay more sacrifice has to happen because I have to take this thing up a notch so in my house I had a nice dining set you know I love furniture but in in my son had a bed I didn't have a bed I didn't have a couch I didn't have all these things just the necessity of he can come down when he has to eat and eat at the table but then go to his room we had one TV he had a bed and it's just like that was it because here's more sacrifice that has to happen in order to get these things done and so that worked for me for a long time of sacrificing and putting every dime into making sure because the content grabbed the people but making sure like my graphics and things lined up with the content and um I didn't stop uh finding well I still finance it but I never received help from 2007 to 2018 and all of that was my money and I never forget I had an issue with one of these reality stars in 2014 and I had now mind you I have a lawyer I have every you know publicist I was working with now I'm funding all of this at this time with unemployment and then um this mess happened with uh the uh celebrity and my lawyer was like I lost like contracts you know when I started to get sponsorship I had lost contracts because of this issue and my lawyer was like okay we're going to sue her for defamation and she said um look at all your financials get all these things together bring it to me so I could see how much you've lost. I was like I don't I would at this point I wasn't even paying attention to how much money I was spending and nothing right and so my niece who if you know my family you know all of them love money like from my mom like my mom was always a numbers person and so uh my sister was in finance and my niece um I had gotten her job at Merle Lynch and she was always good with like money numbers and all that so I went to her at this time she had uh was starting her tax business and I went to her and I said I need help I need you to help me figure out how much money I'm spending and all this so she sat me down sent me a spread she told me all the things and at that point good god Benjamin does this sound familiar it's like I saw hundreds of thousands of dollars and I'm like oh my gosh like of think I didn't even know I possessed that much money especially being unemployed and then whatever I would get in from the magazine like doing events because we always did events like signature things um it went right back into the business and at at points uh to the detriment of my household you know what I mean and so you don't look up for bad right I have a couch you're on TV normal life my son is looking at me like well I don't see her smoking crack so what is going on it's like what is happening natural Gemini high it is I see something is working over here so I have to put my all into this and once I saw that I was like oh wow it gave me um I think the word clarity and I was cognizant of wow look what this is doing for you at this level and you had no clue so then I had to now be responsible because I see the numbers I see but what that did for me was

27:57 Esther girl this thing could work just put more money into this you know it's like put more money into this and and more sacrifice my son is looking like a lady please no more please no more even though he was rolling with the punches you know and so um yeah I saw I would never forget that I saw those numbers and my niece was like oh my she couldn't even believe it because this is at this point um hundreds of thousands of dollars from unemployment and then what we were doing uh with the magazine for the events mind you this is not even we advertising right because at this point I'm just starting to get the magazine to be designed and I my guy Reggie Dupree from New Jersey final draft he we still work together and he came on board and I'm like oh this this is who I need right here he understood and um he just took the look to a whole nother level and then I hired their blanks to do all the photography so now I'm doing all of these things sacrificing at home but outside it's like I'm going to make sure that we're reputable we can if you put us on the shelf we can sit next to Essence Ebony to the ones that I look to to find out all the information of how to run this business and how to make things look and so yeah that was that was a time you touched on several topics that I want to um let our audience know because these things are important you talked first of all being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart secondly an entrepreneur when you're running these things you'd often don't have time to sit back and reflect to see we're always foresight right we're really hindsight right and this tragedy that you had this issue that you had forced you to look hindsight right and then that's when you realized whoa right so again another blessing in disguise right right right because it puts you in a place where you now realize right I'm definitely doing this right and I'm going to do this even bigger right and I believe that was at the moment where you chose to scale up right which is the the intersection for that kind of separates entrepreneurs from true business people right right it's that intersection that helps you when you scale up and you can now automate things and make it work for you right without you having to do so much leg work right so again like like I mentioned that blessing the blessings in all love in the things and the blessing that was a twofold blessing because it prepared me number one to keep the main thing the main thing right I looked at my financials to see that it was working but then also I began to get celebrity like interviews like it was nothing because content yes even though the graphics wasn't great the content was king right and so when I saw them coming I knew it was time to level up with the graphics and everything but then my head I got big headed it was like oh they're reaching out to me oh they want to come to my events are you serious and that when I went through that experience with that celebrity I'm so happy it happened then because I was a growing getting a name for the magazine and for myself but I wasn't all the way out there where people knew and especially in Atlanta and so what that did was also humble me so that it's like you can't allow these people to puff up your head you are on purpose you are moving on purpose this has nothing to do with the celebrity this has nothing to do with all of this shiny stuff it has everything to do with the message and so and all of the opportunity that will come from this so that blessing of being humbled in the beginning now I could I don't care that's about what these people do it is if they match up with what I'm doing and it will help the people then it's okay I could be in any room it does not phase me and I have been in many many rooms been around many many people it don't phase me it is the purpose of how is this going to impact the people people see you when you've made it right right but they don't think about it took 11 years all the years but it's leaving on the couches thousands of dollars of your money before anyone gave me a five thousand also at the fact that when you've done that and you do make it can nobody tell me that thank you because that's what people don't understand no you listen on I use my own yeah do not talk down to me do not talk down to me this because I've been down there right and I've climbed my I know every single sacrifice a whole lot that's why I call me because you see this face and I'm all smiling at you it doesn't mean that I don't know what it took to get here right so respect yourself oh look at me and scoot so please tell our audience what those 11 years looked like and what it felt like when you had that first sponsor oh wow so the 11 years came with a lot of it's a lot of pride you know to say it when I saw those numbers and I'm like what I had this much money right and the things that popped up into my mind was do you know what kind of life you could have had with your child you know in in in all of those like a normal like everyday life with your child that's what I'm be honest that's what popped up into my head just thinking about all the sacrificing and then I'm like and then the flip side was girl you're almost to your goal you you you know you if you just sacrifice a little bit more and so that right there gave me the 11 years of passion purpose sacrifice gave me the confidence that I can move on to a whole not the level and get it right it just give you that stick to itiveness because every event afterwards I was like oh I ain't doing this no more they could tell you my niece could tell you my son like oh I'm done I don't I don't want to do it it's a lot it is a lot it is a lot and majority of it you're doing it yourself because

35:39 Esther you don't have the funds to hire people so when that time came for me I was like oh my gosh and when I did get that first sponsor it came by way through someone that I knew and we worked with each other you know and it was and then I never forget I knew I was getting chumped off you know what I mean where I wasn't getting the type of money that I was supposed to but I was so thirsty to get these funds in that I didn't have to spend my own money I was just like okay something is better than nothing. Something is because that's survival mode thinking and that's why I try to tell people right now if you're going to be an entrepreneur and you don't have a job stay at your job if you don't have nothing to go to to the next to keep those funds in because you make decisions in survival mode that when you thrive it you won't even think about it you know what I mean? So I took on those sponsorships in the beginning and gave them so much more than what I received in funding and in return not just the funding but in return and I did it and it didn't bother me it don't bother me now but I it was just the knowing that they got more than what you know I received and I was good with that. Do you think that part of being good with that was because you knew that regardless of what they were getting you were putting yourself out there and your product will show for itself and I was connecting my name to a conglomerate's name so some things that may not come sometimes it's not monetary progress but it's the connections that you make it's the relationships that you build and that's something that entrepreneurs have to realize they have to you have to realize that early on because and just because you have a relationship with someone or you connect with someone doesn't mean that you're always going to get along with them right so you have to learn to be business oriented and separate it from personal stuff right so I'm glad that you stuck with it and didn't just let that you know because that again survival could make you feel that way like all your you screw me over right you know so fine I won't do this but you can't have that mindset let me tell you something because I'm happy you said and not feel a way towards the person who is bringing you in because this person knew that they had given this one company 50,000 but you want to give me 10 you know what I mean and I'm bigger than them but because I'm a black woman and I'm you know that I'm just coming out with this stuff with this magazine you know we're just coming on board to be at this new level and you're gonna offer me 10 and then they had to or dance you tell me you gave this other company 50 you know but I didn't I feel like sometimes that's just God helping you out and helping you out to be that awareness and to be in gratitude yep you know what I mean like and that's what I was I was in gratitude of it and I took that good check and do what I'm supposed to I didn't say you know oh you gave these people but no I just I was always aware I was always aware and I was always grateful you know but I knew that I was only doing this in survival mode because if I was still working for Merrill Lynch and getting that paycheck I'm like girl you crazy so tell me on that note how does it feel known for you to be able to pick and choose who to sponsor you and who to put out there oh god that's a great question because I am at that moment where I have chosen right so you know last year we did the event with PBS the town hall where it's called unmuted and we spoke about menopause and things like that and going in I had a lot of people because it was a partnership with PBS to come and ask to be on board and I was very selective because I'm like um black women are lord we're a marvel that's a whole nother story but what I know is we deal with a lot of things like I said I was in survival mode and all during this time I never checked on my mental health right it was always stick to it you're gonna make it work and everything but the mental capacity to build a business be a single mom be a black one all of those things was into one and so now since I am able to pick and choose the partners I was so happy to partner with Terrace Metrix who is a behavioral psycho it is a behavioral tool to assess to know and have clarity right and so coming on board with me I'm like it's solutions based so it's not just you giving me money but we are also providing a solution it's not just you sticking a logo on our stuff if we can't solve a problem then we can't do anything and so what we're doing now is with unmuted all of this year this is how I learned how to utilize the magazine as a force to um initiate change and so what we're doing is unmuted is about being aware and being clear we have so much going on out here in the world and it's like so much information but if we are not self-aware of who we are how we move and clear on that we're gonna fall for anything that's out here we're gonna believe everything we're gonna we're gonna look at AI and ask it all these questions and it's not a human you know and so if this this Terrace Metrix partnership is that and so I'm so grateful that now I am thriving that I can see the partnerships and see that it's more than a check see that you can really make change in those partnerships and that's one of the biggest things that I love because the work that we are planning to do is all we want to do is make sure you're clear take this assessment and that's why the assessment is at a very low cost like $25 because it's like I want you to make sure when you walk outside of your door you are clear and firm on who you are you are aware and that nothing that flows with the wind can come past you to get past you and you don't have a thought of so

43:16 Esther and so now when I tell people about you know partnerships sponsorships let it like it even celebrity stuff like let it come to you and give you an understanding of how you can make change right and not just allow it to be a check the check is amazing I'm telling y'all come on board with checks but it has to solve a problem like it has to be solution based for me and I'm so grateful that the work that I've grown this magazine to do instead of just tell a story you know we've grown to be initiative based to where as we're telling the story we're going to change lives we're going to impact them and not just an event to be seen with a celebrity and you know taking pictures it's so much more than that so much more that's beautiful you talked about Atlanta your first stuff was Atlanta now second step okay because it was North Carolina right and then Atlanta right now Atlanta is famous for what black folks okay now now you're in Utah yes what is Utah not famous for black folks okay thank you very much at the moment the population county Utah for black people and when I say black people I mean African African Americans right it's about 1.3 percent that's pretty pretty low right and it's something that you noticed that there was a huge gap right because just because we're 1.3 percent doesn't mean that we're not here right so how did you see that as an opportunity to make a difference yeah and make an impact on the 1.3 percent of black people here in Utah well I didn't Lauren Walker she was the CSO for Young Living here and they have partnered in 2018 and Lauren flew and her team they flew to Atlanta to be shot by Derek Blanks and during that time Lauren she was getting her hair done I believe or we were putting on her clothes or something and she said to me she this is amazing everything you do because at that time I had started the women of impact yes and they had came to that and met Candy and we talked about what we did together for that and so at the photo shoot she was like to me share everything you're doing is amazing how have you ever thought about moving to Utah you you you should and I was like I'm like I'm gonna know you're talking and she was like why at first they had offered me a job you know to to come there and I was like did I told you I didn't take a lot of opportunities and I was like you know black people in Utah my son is like it looks like a grown man he's not I'm not gonna go through all of that you know especially the population and all so I thought about all of that and I said no I can't move there and she said you would be surprised that the community is very strong because and I was like okay she said come out for Sundance now I've heard of Sundance um I've always wanted to do a tv show so I'm in in movies and all that kind of stuff so I knew about Sundance and she said you should come to Sundance and you should come see and I was like when is Sundance and she said January and February and I was I'm not coming to Utah no January and February that's why I moved to Atlanta because it's warmer during that time and she's like okay oh man I will never forget it's 2019 now I'm looking at Sundance Oprah's there and and Ava DuVernay and window peers like oh my Sundance to me that was the year that I should have went wow and I saw Lauren um they were at places where they were doing like so many things and I was like see how you messed up this business opportunity talking about black people not there don't do that anymore Oprah came there must be black people here okay so I was like I'm never gonna miss another Sundance and so the next Sundance which was 2020 I came and did a um film screening uh in these film on human trafficking and so uh my good friend Carday Hill she did the movie from Atlanta she came here and we did it and it was like a hundred black folks in there and I was like hmm and I had was the part of she oh I met William Marks there from Facebook okay and he was like to me I would love for you to um do some work with us and I was like okay and so at that time I was able to go around and see Utah and so then I was like hmm so then um I did the partnership with um uh Facebook it was during the pandemic right after the event um I had to fly to LA and I was like I already had in my mind that it was time for me to go from Atlanta and I was like hmm I could fly to LA in like an hour right okay I was like hmm okay so I was filming my um my tv show so I flew over there we did the interview with Garcel from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills Vanessa Simmons so I was able to do all those interviews and fly back to Utah to say okay this is not bad I was like okay and so I was like my team was able to fly to LA and then I was like hmm so I came back and so I went over to where I live at I was like hmm let me just see what these what this looks like yeah and I went and I was like oh okay all right all right I'll give it a try wow and but when I came here I still kept my place in Atlanta because I didn't know if I was just in case just in case I cannot find those 100 black people that should I need to show up all the time and so I understood what Lauren was saying when she said that there was a need there was there's an not a need for black people to do things because they were already doing things but it was for it to be known on a national level um of the stories of the people who were here and to bring what we do far as the women of impact that people love that we do here and to bring that dynamic here and to honor the black people here in such a grand way you know it's one of the things that I couldn't wait to bring here so it's been that kind of journey here I was gonna leave 50 million times

50:55 Esther but I decided to stay you know and um it's been a good journey so one of the reasons you know and I tell you this all the time and I share this with everyone that I meet one of the reasons why I love and support Tenisha is because she was able to do something that it took me 10 years to do here in Utah which was to find my tribe build a tribe build um a com uh comadery of people that look like me that talk like me that think and feel the same way that I do at times you know and you did that within a year of being here and I remember walking to your events and I will say this again many many times walking into her event and it felt like I was going to church I was going to church back in the Bay Area of California where there was a lot of a lot of faces that were familiar the hair was all familiar everything about and it was such a beautiful moment that I absolutely wanted to support and I didn't even know I didn't even know what I wanted to do I just knew that whatever you were doing that you had the the mitre stitch and that I wanted to see it grow because there are two like that was the first time I had seen that many black people in a room right and I've been here for over 10 years at that point and so that was just so impressive to me I wasn't even supposed to be there that night right I'm a very homebody right and I showed up because I was given a ticket from the mayor's office and I just showed up and didn't know what to expect right and I was it blew me away oh and so that's something that I want to keep going and to keep being shared because there are more people coming in right there are more people that we still haven't met yet right that need to be in that position they need to be seen right and I have seen you celebrate wonderful women so humble so humble and they would have been fine just being in their little corner right for the rest of their lives and doing their superb thing right in their little corner and never being recognized right but the fact that you brought them out I feel has given them value that's beyond what they would have ever dreamed of and has given them an opportunity to realize that hey what you are doing here is absolutely extraordinary and other people need to see that so that they can also see themselves in you right and know that they too can do it right and it's important right so it goes back from that initial point of you wanting to highlight people in your neighborhood highlight different cities highlight people they're doing extraordinary things right but in us you know in their own little you know spaces right but then you're making them be known so thank you for that and thank you for coming to Utah yeah and all your events have been just absolutely like wonderful there's it's because you bring the luxury yeah that we love yeah bring the luxury that we expect you bring the luxury that that it's we didn't have to drive too far right right like it's here right and it's okay to enjoy that and it's okay for us to have it our way yes our way I grew up and there's nothing wrong with our way no I grew up where my family celebrate I'm different cracker but I grew up with my family celebrated my cousin go on a gel like we celebrate and we had a full dinner plates everything my family just did things different and there and if you would have met my mom she just moved in a certain kind of way she had to have a certain kind of thing and I had gotten that from her I grew up in entertainment my my aunts my cousins my aunts own and my mom restaurant stores my cousins own clubs so I've been around celebrities and stuff all of my life right and so when and then moving to Atlanta gave me that insight of oh they do it for real here so it was a certain kind of level you had to be at for people to number one buy a ticket to come and then to keep coming and Atlanta just what I grew up with and then what I saw there made me you know level up a whole nother level so when I came here to Utah I was already doing those things in Atlanta in New Jersey like so it was nothing for me to come here and hit the ground running but it was everything for us right it's nothing for you but everything for us to experience but what I'm saying is nothing for me to give because that's why it seems like it's over the top or something because it's within me it's something that I know it's something I love it's over the top I feel like it's perfect it's necessary it's needed yeah and I believe we deserve it we deserve it why not why we can't have what in it is well I don't care if we just come in to sit and hear a conversation it's going to be a pretty conversation yes we're going to have some great food some good drinks and it's just going to be a vibe because that's who we are you know that's what we deserve it doesn't matter it's the black culture and it's beautiful yes yes so last October you reached out to me and let me know that you were going to honor me and six other wonderful women and I remember when I got that email I initially thought no Tunisia I don't need to be honored I just want to keep supporting you to keep doing these things and I remember your response was like no I'm honoring you and you're just going to have to show up and I thought you know what thank you from the bottom of my heart because I'm okay being behind the scenes for the rest of my life and in like the same and it was also beautiful because those six women we're all the same way we're okay being behind the scenes and just doing our thing but what you do and continue to do is to let women let people let the black people in Utah know that you

57:28 Esther have to be seen by others because it is important because especially here when there's not a lot of us someone needs to know that we're here we exist and that we're doing great things but one thing that I also found in that group of women that were honored alongside with me along with them was that we all shared this sisterhood that it was just we had just met I had just met them right but there was a commonality that felt so like we'd known each other for a long time right the impact black women experience drew women nationally to Utah with JP Morgan, DoTERRA, Wall Trade Center Utah and Strong and Hany as sponsors. Daniel Wright, JP Morgan's managing director for Utah and Idaho markets, attended specifically to understand the needs of black women business owners. This is community building converting into institutional investment. I want to go somewhere different now I'm a woman of faith and I came to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from Nigeria and my faith is the foundation of every single thing I've built. EKOT, my family, my service work, this podcast. I know you walk in faith too. I hear it in the way you talk about timing, about doors, doors opening, about purpose so let me ask you this when you look back at the layoff from Merrill Lynch the decade of self-funding the pandemic moved to Utah the partnerships that came out of nowhere. Do you see a hand at work that you couldn't see in the moment? I'm always aware of the hand always aware of the hand daily because I know where I came from. I know that a lot of the things that took place in my life was not of my own recognition. I've always recognized the hand always even when I was a child. It was crazy growing up in my household but I always understood the hand because my mother knew the hand. I was always able to see because she's always like, oh, if it's God's will. If it don't work out then it's not the will of God. I've always had that and still do have it. Working throughout my life it is not of my own. I know that myself. When I get into my own way, I get a tap on the shoulder like, the hand, back back a little bit, move to the side, go, you know, so it's always there. Throughout this podcast I believe that you've mentioned several moments where you've had the hand has come in to slow you down where let's say Pride was taking over your purpose, your focus, and then bringing you back to always stay on that purpose. One thing that you mentioned one time at one of your, this is when University of Utah placed your magazine into their archives and I remember what you said and it was, if you have ever doubted God, watch me. And that stood out to me till today probably for the rest of my life. That really stood out to me because it helped me understand and it is the same way that I walk that everything that we do is not by our doing. And when we stay focused on God, He will truly help us walk in our purpose and just let it fall into place the way it's supposed to be. And in our friendship, we've seen moments where maybe something came up and you wanted to go that route and you see how God comes back and says, nope, that's not for you to do this instead. And what I've loved about your story, Tenisha, from packing up and going to North Carolina, from packing up from there and going to Atlanta, from packing up from there and coming to Utah, you have always listened to his voice. And you've always done things at his time and you've trusted, you have trusted. And that's something that's very impressive to me. And it's something that aligns with who I am. And it's probably one of the reasons why I stay close to you. Because it isn't just about you going out and doing these things. It's you realizing who is in control. And that's something that a lot of people often don't realize. It isn't you. It isn't me. It is him. And if he wills it, it will come to fruition. And you have so many times showing me patience. And you probably think I'm not me. I know. You probably have not little. I know. We do have little patience. But when it comes to God, there's something that you're just like, you know what? I'm not going to react right now. I'm just going to sit back and let him show me the way. And he always does. Every time. Never late. Always on time. And but more importantly, you recognize that one that happens. And you let it be known. And that's why I loved that speech that you gave that day. Where I was very simple statement. If you've ever doubted God, watch me. Right. And I'm still watching you. And we're still here. And I'm grateful that we've had the opportunity to get to know one another over these years. And I'm grateful to see you continue in your journey, in your purpose. And I look forward to seeing where your purpose will take you. I will be riding along with you and showing up at your events and letting people know that this is what you should support because it is important. You're doing great things for not just me, but for a lot of other people that look like us in a place where us is very little, but we're enough to be impactful. And that is what you're sharing with the world. So thank you for coming to Utah. Well, thank you. Don't leave anytime soon. Oh Lord. Okay. I will tell you make this home and travel and go do it everywhere else. I'll make this home because it is a truly a beautiful place. And I'm just going to give a shout out to Utah there because Utah is truly a beautiful place. I was talking to someone the other day and they said, yeah, just don't tell anyone else. Too late. Too late. It is a beautiful place. It is. I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a whole lot more that look like us that are here and that are doing great things. Yeah. And I just want to

64:28 Esther say I thank you for even persisting, you know, to reach out and everything because I think when, yeah, when you reached out, that's when my mom was going through her cancer journey right before she passed away. So it was good for you to reach out and also watch and be involved in being a partner in a majority of everything that we do. So that is amazing. And also I'm grateful for the doors that have opened up from me coming here and showcasing Black people letting their stories be known and allowing companies to come and partner and be a part of that experience. Also being one of the people to where now other people, not big corporations, you know, doing things for Black people, but it is the community outside of the big Black organizations. But everyday people are being confident in doing their own events and celebrating and doing the things the way that they know that we love. So I'm happy to have come here and to shine a spotlight on the space and bringing that comfortability where people are comfortable now where they can do it. And they feel like, you know, because when I came and I began to impact Black women experience, it was that a period of time where Black women didn't feel psychologically safe in Utah. So to see the strides within the five years I've been here to see all of this development, I'm so happy and proud mama. Well, thank you for coming in. And with you, look at you, I'll never forget, I was when I first met her and met you and I kept saying, ma'am, you need to be still a blah blah blah and to see you walking in this path and for people to feel your presence, feel your warmth, and for you to come on and allow people to see this portion of yourself is exactly what I was saying you needed to do. Because you and your story is just amazing. We all have wonderful stories. Yeah, and so many people can be enlightened from that and empowered. So I'm grateful you were able to share your story with me because she's on the cover of the magazine. And so. Two covers. Yes. Oh, yeah. First magazine ever. So thank you for giving me that. Okay. Yes. Two covers. I'm just I didn't even remember that. Yeah. And remember, I remember my cousin of mine saw the cover and they're like, ooh, Esther. Yeah, it's cute. So nice. Yes. All the pictures in. I've even, okay, so now, because at the time, I didn't pay attention that she was on two, but even from the first cover to this last one, just the change in you, you can see it. I'm looking at it in my brain and you can see the difference and it's like, okay, I see that. Okay. Utah's definitely has been a place of growth for me. It has been a place of refinement. Yeah. And it's a place that it's allowing me to truly raise my our kids the way that I feel is best. And so I will, I, you know, I will always credit just moving here again, following the spirit, right? And just saying, you know, what just just go, just go. So that's great. Thank you for being a part of that journey. Yes. And thank you for being a part of mine. All right. Before I let you go, we're doing rapid fire. Okay. Short answers. Don't think too hard. Okay. Ready? No. Two, two, eight. We're doing it. Okay. What is the best spot in SLC that gives you East Coast energy? The Edison House. Utah winters adjusted or still traumatized? I'm from Jersey. I didn't even have to adjust. It's just the way of life. Okay. Atlanta food or Utah food? Pick one, no diplomacy. Why are you asking me this question? You already know it's Atlanta. One song that carries you through the hardest workdays. Anything by Robert Glasser. Okay. Your business superpower. One word. Impact. Ah, good job. Good call. Biggest lie people believe about black women in business. I can't curse. No, you cannot say that again. So I could get it. What is the biggest lie people believe about black women in business? What is the biggest lie people believe about black women and girl? I don't know what people believe about because we're not thinking about what people are thinking. I can't answer that. That's I have no clue. Most Utah thing you've had to explain to somebody back home. Fry sauce. Yes. Okay. Now, which is interesting because that's the next question. Fry sauce. Yes or no? And be honest, your New Jersey card depends on it. It depends on a day. You can have dinner with one black woman living or gone. Who? Susan L. Taylor. Oh, yeah. If Impact magazine was a song, what song would it be? Encore by Jay Z. Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that. Okay. All right. Last you and I want you to take your time with these. Okay. It's 2036. 10 years from now. Okay. Where is Impact magazine? I hope in the ruba land on the beach somewhere. I think that's the truth. Did you say Aruba? Yes. Aruba lying on the beach somewhere. Retired and allowing someone else to carry the torch. I love that. If you could sit across from your 25-year-old self before Merrill Lynch, before Impact, before any of this and tell her one thing, what would it be? My 25-year-old self, I was at, wait a minute, no, I wasn't. I was pregnant. Okay. Go ahead. All right. Go ahead. I had to think back where I was. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. If you could sit across from your 25-year-old self before Merrill Lynch, before Impact, before any of this and tell her one thing, what would it be? You can do anything. You put your mind to it. Figure out your purpose and go for it. Absolutely. Tunisia. Sorry. No coughing allowed. I know, right? Okay. This is water. Oh, but you have your spectrum of water. Yes. Yeah. I'm a Tunisia. We're not even going to get into that. Tunisia.

72:08 Esther Yes. Thank you. Not just for this conversation. Thank you for what you've built in the state. For me, for my children, for every black woman and girl who will come to Utah and find an infrastructure that exists because you decided to stay. The impact you've made is real. It's archived, it's permanent. And sister, it's just getting started. Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. So can you tell me a few things that Impact has coming up this year? It is 2026. It is 2026. As I spoke about earlier, I'm really, really excited about the partnership I have with Terrace Metrics, the work that we're going to do as to allowing women to become clear. This, all of these things that have unfolded in this world and 300,000 black women losing jobs like that. And so many things taking place with us where a lot of us are shifting into menopause. A lot of us are business owners. It's so many facets to us as women. And this partnership with Terrace Metrics is really going to do a lot of work with bringing awareness to yourself. Like we have so much distraction that's going on outside. But I believe if we pay attention to who we are being clear on ourselves, we'll know what to do. And so this year, Impact has dedicated like all of our issues to that. This month, we just released our latest cover with Dee Dee McGuire on it. She's radio hall, a fame, you know, and she's, we're speaking about her voice and allowing herself to be heard. And then losing herself in that and then becoming self-aware and finding that. And so I'm so excited to bring the stories of people that a lot of people know. And then stories of people that some people don't know. But it's all about being clear and aware and for people to come on board. And if they want to be involved and want to join the community, to being aware, I asked everyone to first take the assessment and see. And it's not just them taking the assessment and then they go about their business. But they can take the assessment. It's a baseline. That's the beginning. And if you feel as though you need further help, then the partnership with Terrace Metrics, we go another level, you know, with them. They provide videos, reading material, and then we go another step if you want some of the psychologists to reach out to you. So it's all depends on the person, but you have to be aware of yourself to know what you need. And that's what I've dedicated this year to. So not a lot of gallows, but we are doing the men and women of impact Juneteenth here. And then we started, there's no journalistic type of news out there in for Black media, legacy media like the New York Times. They are just like destroying themselves. And so I'm like, I'm ushering impact into that New York time, Washington Post type opinion, editorial type work. And so we just finished filming that. But that's where we are. And I'm so excited about it. But being purpose driven, you know. And so. Well, I'm excited for this here. And you know, I'll be in the corner. Yes. This is amazing. That's the Berkras table. I'm Esther Jackson Stowell. Until next time, build bold, build with purpose, and build for the ones coming after you. Thank you for joining me at the Berkras table. If today's conversation inspired you, please subscribe, share, and leave a review. I'm Esther Jackson Stowell. Until next time, keep brokering faith, family, and freedom.